Topic: Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever but the church???

[Tim Russ]

While it's clear that the bible teaches that Jesus is the same always it's not so clear that this is the status of the church.

The church evolves because it's filled with imperfect people.  Jesus being perfect has no need to change.  The church must to one degree or another reflect the society in which it exists.  This is because the people within the church are part of that society.

When you mingle imperfection with the perfect (God's church structure) you will inevitably end up with problems.  Problems require solutions and solutions produce growth and growth creates change and thus you end up with an ever evolving church.

So, what do you think the state of the church is today and where do you think it's headed?

[Ro]

Do you want the politically correct answer?  Or what reality is?

The reality is that this world and now churches have become so accomodating to everyone in their "seeker friendly" mission that there seems to be pieces of the truth strewn along the road. 

I know that it is not politically correct to talk about SIN because we might offend someone.

Many churches do not want to say that God heals because ... well... what if they pray and they do not get healed. I actually heard a preacher on the radio say that we can pray for healing but we should not expect to be healed...but we are to pray about it because God says we are to pray about it. If I had not heard that with my own ears I would not have believed it.  That is AMAZING. 

Where are the sermons to teach us what sin is? 

Where are the sermons to teach us about the power in the blood?  Ohhh yeah... blood is viewed as a contaminate....we have an adversity to blood in these 'modern times'. 

Where are the teachings about Jesus as the ONLY way to savation?  There really is ONE WAY!  His name is Jesus and without him we do NOT have salvation. 

Sorry.... I get a little carried away about the compromising spirit that has attacked the church. 

Jesus is coming back and probably sooner than most realize.  There will be a wedding and according to scripture 50% won't make it.  Jesus is the bridegroom about to come for his bride....the church. 

Jesus is awesome!  Soon the Father will say to his son....go and get my children.  Hallelujah!!!
Then I want to hear from my savior say... Well done...good and faithful servant. 

[Tim Russ]

No need to apologize.  I asked you what you thought and I expected you to share your exhuberance as well as your opinion.

[Ro]

Ohhh I have LOTS of opinions. 

The church needs an alarm clock.  Someone needs to set it to ring...immediately... and wake up the church.  Then we need someone to feed the waking church with the needed food...after the long fast....like the Breakfast meal after a long sleep. A meal to give energy for the day ahead.

Jesus said ... Feed my sheep.

 

[Ro]

Jesus is the same... we change....the world changes and our needs can even change. BUT the good news is not only does God not change but he will ALWAYS be there when we need him.  He will not come too early but he will be there when we need him. 

He is faithful.

[Tim Russ]

While I agree with the basic ideas you've expressed I tend to wonder whether or not we give too much credit to God's provision and dismiss our own required participation in solving issues.

[Ro]

That is what I love about you, your balanced approach to everything, or at least more balance than me most of the time.   

It is true that we can't just sit back and say Lord do it all for me.  We should be doing our part, after all the Bible refers to those who will be overcoming and enduring to the end when He returns.  Does not sound like people are supposed to curl up on their sofas and veg out and just wait for Jesus to come an make their life all right. 

However, I think I am more concerned with people getting too legalistic and trying to work on achieving their own salvation .   

That is where Grace comes in and yet I think most Christians know that salvation is a Gift from God who has given it freely. 

[Tim Russ]

Here are two translations to consider:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:8-10 (KJV)

8 God saved you through faith as an act of kindness. You had nothing to do with it. Being saved is a gift from God. 9 It's not the result of anything you've done, so no one can brag about it. 10 God has made us what we are. He has created us in Christ Jesus to live lives filled with good works that he has prepared for us to do.
Eph 2:8-10 (GW)

Grace is for changing our nature.
Works are what we do after our nature is changed so we can please God.

Works performed BEFORE salvation for the purpose of justifying ourselves are a wasted effort.  Salvation only comes through grace.

[Ro]

Absolutely!

Very well put! /  Explained!

 

[Ro]

Works performed BEFORE salvation for the purpose of justifying ourselves are a wasted effort.  Salvation only comes through grace.

What is the purpose of our works after salvation? 

[Tony]

Pleasing God, furthering His kingdom, dealing with all men righteously.

The Pauline Epistles are for those under grace, although all scripture is 'God Breathed' and worthwhile for study...
The best advice I can give any Christian is this: Keep your self humble; it is so easy to become proud;
Ask God for wisdom, read Proverbs, study the criminal code in the Old Testament books, and the words & parables of Jesus prayerfully and you will quickly gain more understanding than 99% of the  lawyers & politicians.

Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time. Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one. (Col 4:5)

You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart. (2 Co 3:2,3)

 Thessalonians 3:13-14 (New King James Version)
 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good. And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed...

We don't HAVE to do anything for the Lord, but we GET to!

To go a little further: What replaces the law?... God. The ministry of the law is replaced by the more glorious ministry of the Spirit, or,
God "in you, the hope of glory" (Col 1:27)
The ministry of the Spirit, also called the ministry of righteousness, is the ministry that 'remains'.

2 Cor.3:7-8
2 Cor. 3:17
2 Cor. 3:9
2 Cor. 3:10-11

When believers look to the law for motivation or guidance or growth, they are overlooking God.
God or the Law, that is the choice, for no member of the Body of Christ gets to choose both.
To the extent a Christian partakes of the law, to that extent he disregards the Lord...
There is of course, much more Scripture to back this up, if anyone requests.

Some, naively believe that Christians can go on sinning with no consequence's for sin whatsoever because we are under grace and forgiven. While that may be 'technically true', the truth is, we should become even more HOLY, understanding what our Lord Jesus has done for us. After being a Christian for approximately 30 years I am still brought to tears when I think about Calvary. And when I do or say something shameful to my Lord, I always know it.
If it didn't bother me, I would 'check my credentials'. I know He forgives me, but my relationship with Him requires me to 'make it right'; to repent of my wrong doing and move on with our relationship after the 'breech', just as we would do with a family member or anyone else we loved.

As you guys well know, I could ramble on & on, but I'll spare everyone and stop here.

[Joy]

I enjoyed reading this Tony.  Thanks for sharing an encouraging message.

[Tony]

Your quite welcome Joy, good to hear from you. I'm a bit controversial and usually chase off more responses than I get! I appreciate your vote of confidence!