Author Topic: The Rampant Sin of Abortion  (Read 771 times)

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Offline Tim Russ

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The Rampant Sin of Abortion
« on: April 23, 2009, 04:37:03 PM »
Like many, I've been very concerned about the economy. My business and family have taken some major hits, like so many others. Many people including both Parties have been part of the chain of events which has led us to this place. The Country was 'ripe' for a man like Obama to come to power, as we as a Nation became more immoral. With the rampant spread of abortion and homosexual rights, the secular humanism being promoted in our schools, and the corruption in government, it gives me great concern about the future of our Country.

Much could be said about these things and others. I'm sure it grieves God greatly to see what this country has become. The shedding of so much innocent blood thru 'America's Holocaust': abortion. Even the most wicked politicians on the far left voted for a bill that would have stopped abortion clinics from letting still alive babies from botched abortions just lay there and die, some after many hours. But not Obama.

God has linked homosexuality with rebellion, and is something so repugnant to Him that it's something He gives people over to when they have renounced and rejected Him. (Ro. 1)
When a society tolerates this activity, they have in effect, renounced and rejected God and is close to getting turned over to it's own sins. Only judgement is left.
Sodom and Gomorrah offer a poignant testimony to the ruinous effects rampant homosexuality can have on a society.

So with all this 'doom & gloom', you might say 'where is the hope?' To which I say, 'Where, indeed?'

Have we as a Country gone past the point of no return? Are we now caught up in a current so strong, we cannot escape?

I HOPE not! I PRAY not! Recently I've met some strong young Christian leaders on 'Facebook' who have renewed my HOPE in our Country. When I hear these passionate young people speaking in churches, at TEA Parties, on line, and in their schools and workplaces, it encourages me to renew my HOPE, to renew my prayer life, and to speak out even bolder against those who would do evil against God, family, themselves and their Country!

Ro, not sure what you wanted/needed here, so I just jotted this down real quick.
HOPE there's something here you can use!  T



Thank you so much for sharing your view.  It’s important that we share even conflicting opinions.  The clash of ideas is generally where growth of opinion occurs most frequently.

Abortion is a hot topic among all the people in the United States.  No matter what opinion I post here I’m going to offend someone.  So rather than trying to please anyone in particular or offend anyone in particular I’m just gonna tell you what I believe.

Abortion isn’t a spiritual matter.  It’s a legal matter.

All aborted babies go straight to heaven.  In the spiritual aspect of this they are gleaned from humanity and transported straight to the throne of God.

Is abortion a bad thing?  Is it the taking of a life?  Is it murder?  All those are good questions.

The bible says in the ten commandments that “thou shalt not kill”.  It means you aren’t to murder. 

In Exodus 20:13 where it says Thou Shalt Not Kill the word kill in Hebrew is 7523. ratsach, raw-tsakh'; a prim. root; prop. to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), espec. to murder:--put to death, kill, (man-) slay (-er), murder (-er).

So what does it mean to murder?  To put someone to death?  If that were accurate the state couldn’t execute people.  Does it mean you can’t kill the enemy?  If that were the case then all wartime soldier who have killed anyone would have to be put to death.  Does it mean that every doctor who’s forced to choose between the life of the mother and the life of the child, and makes that choice is guilty and should be murdered.

Obviously all these examples are ludicrous.  The mere taking of life or the inaction or choice that causes a death isn’t in and of itself the act of murder.  American laws have levels of punishment based on the taking of life.  Murder in the first degree, murder in the second degree, manslaughter, depraved indifference, etc.

I believe that life begins at conception.  I don’t believe all aborted babies are murdered.  The concept that a child is owned by it’s mother is as ludicrous as thinking a wife is owned by her husband.  We don’t own children, we’re entrusted by God with them to raise them to glorify him.

I’ll openly admit that I don’t have the answers for every situation.  I’ll also tell you that I don’t think all abortions are murders.  Murder is based on hatred within one’s heart.  Many women have abortions because they have no option to raise a child and putting it into a foster system or condemning it to the suffering of poverty is unacceptable.  These aren’t hateful attitudes.

If God wants a child to live it will live regardless of what the state wants.  Moses and Jesus both lived through state sponsored child killing.  God is sovereign.  He can do anything he wants. 

So, abortions may be sinful.  They may not be sinful.   They may be murder.  They may not be murder.  The bottom line here is that this is primarily a legal matter not a spiritual one.  Yes, yes, murder is a spiritual matter but that’s something that God judges. 




Offline Tony

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Re: The Rampant Sin of Abortion
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2009, 12:12:39 AM »
Wow! I'm stunned!   :o  Abortions MAY be sin?!!?  Abortions MAY be murder?!!?
 I'm shocked, I'll have to get back to this later maybe.

Offline Ro

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Re: The Rampant Sin of Abortion
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2009, 08:34:44 AM »
Tim,  I love the fact that you quoted one of the 10 Commandments.  THAT made my day!  Love it!   :2

Not sure why I am so calm about all the details of these controversial topics.  I think it is because I look to God to take care of such details. 

Maybe I have too much of a careless attitude but I want God to take care of the small stuff and I will just work at staying close to him.  Thank you Jesus!
   
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Offline Tony

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Re: The Rampant Sin of Abortion
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2009, 01:17:16 PM »
{quote} Abortion isn’t a spiritual matter.  It’s a legal matter. {/quote}

I believe it is both. I have read and seen first hand the devastating spiritual, emotional and physical consequences of abortion; on the mother mainly, but also the father and those who perform and assist in the slaughter of the innocent.
I won't have the space to go into the spiritual aspects of this subject now, however I intend to shine the light of His Word on this subject and I hope the discerning will be able to see this issue thru 'God's eyes'.

There are some pro-abortion advocates who believe in the Bible and some Christians who are either somewhat apathetic on this subject, or who have just accepted that the current law of the land must be God's will and therefore righteous, or to be accepted as such. They may believe that God and the Bible are either silent or in agreement with abortion. It is those who I wish to take to task. At the same time, I don't wish to offend Christians who have been mislead by their Pastors, teachers, family, friends or media. My hope is that this article would cause some to see abortion for what it truly is, the 'American Holocaust.'

Almost everyone knows someone who has been effected by abortion and the pain it causes.
Please prayerfully consider the Scripture. And Tim, don't feel like I'm 'picking' on you, because I think we agree more than we disagree, but I am going to use a couple of your quotes.

Some maintain that "nowhere does the Bible prohibit abortion." Yet the Bible clearly prohibits the killing of innocent people (Exodus 20:13). All that is necessary to prove a biblical prohibition of abortion is to demonstrate that the Bible considers the unborn to be human beings.

The Hebrew word used in the Old Testament to refer to the unborn (Exodus 21:22-25) is yeled, a word that "generally indicates young children, but may refer to teens or even young adults." The Hebrews did not have or need a separate word for unborn children. They were just like any other children, only younger. In the Bible there are references to born children and unborn children, but there is no such thing as a potential, incipient, or "almost" child.

 Job graphically described the way God created him before he was born (Job 10:8-12). The person in the womb was not something that might become Job, but someone who was Job, just a younger version of the same man. To Isaiah, God says, "This is what the Lord says - he who made you, who formed you in the womb" (Isaiah 44:2). What each person is, not merely what he might become, was present in his mother's womb.

Psalm 139:13-16 paints a graphic picture of the intimate involvement of God with a preborn person. God created David's "inmost being," not at birth, but before birth. David says to his Creator, "You knit me together in my mother's womb." Each person, regardless of any birth handicap, such as inconvenient timing, poverty, deformity, or even rape, (which is extremely rare) has not been manufactured on a cosmic assembly line, but has been personally knitted together by God in the womb.

Jacob was given prominence over his twin Esau "though not yet born" (Romans 9:11). When Rebekah was pregnant with Jacob and Esau, Scriptures says, "The babies jostled each other within her" (Genesis 25:22). The unborn are regarded as "babies" in the full sense of the term. God tells Jeremiah, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" (Jeremiah 1:5). He could not know Jeremiah in his mother's womb unless Jeremiah, the person, was present in his mother's womb. The Creator is involved in an intimate knowing relationship not only with born people, but with unborn people.

In Luke 1:41,44 there are references to the unborn John the Baptist, who was at the end of his second trimester in the womb. The word, translated baby, in these verses is the Greek word brephos. It is the same word used for the already born baby Jesus (Luke 2:12, 16) and for the babies brought to Jesus to receive His blessing (Luke 18:15-17). It is also the same word used in Acts 7:19 for the newborn babies killed by Pharaoh. To the writers of the New Testament, like the Old, whether born or unborn, a baby is simply a baby. It appears that the preborn John the Baptist responded to the presence of the preborn Jesus in His mother Mary when Jesus was probably no more than ten days beyond His conception (Luke 1:41).

The angel Gabriel told Mary that she would be "with child and give birth to a son" (Luke 1:31). In the first century, and in every century, to be pregnant is to be with child, not with that which might become a child. The Scriptures teach the psychosomatic unity of the whole person, body, soul, and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23). Wherever there is a genetically distinct living human being, there is a living soul and spirit.

The most significant thing about abortion legislation in Biblical law is that there is none. It was so unthinkable that an Israelite woman should desire an abortion that there was no need to mention this offense in the criminal code. All that was necessary to prohibit an abortion was the command, "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13). Every Israelite knew that the preborn child was indeed a child. Therefore, miscarriage was always viewed as the loss of a child and abortion as the killing of a child.

The closest thing I could find was Ex. 21:22-23: 'Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve.
 But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life.'
Common sense would dictate if God considered the 'accidental' killing of an unborn child worthy of death, how much more so a deliberate abortion/murder?

Child sacrifice is condemned throughout Scripture. Only the most degraded societies tolerated such evil, and the worst of these defended and celebrated it as if it were a virtue. Ancient dumping grounds have been found filled with the bones of hundreds of dismembered infants. This is strikingly similar to discoveries of thousands of dead babies discarded by modern abortion clinics. One scholar of the ancient Near East refers to infant sacrifice as "the Canaanite counterpart to abortion." 
Unlike the pagan sacrifices, however, with abortion, child killing need no longer be postponed till birth; except in the cases of botched abortions where the baby is taken to a room with the other babies who have been killed, and allowed to just lay there and die with no comfort or help whatsoever. A law was written to change this horrible practice, our current president Barack Hussein Obama voted against it.

Many times 'Partial Birth Abortion' is 'justified' in cases of the 'life of the mother', but has been more widely used because of the difficulty keeping staff once they have seen a baby dismembered during an abortion. It is a gruesome procedure. I have included a medical description of the procedure at the bottom of this article along with statistics.
This procedure has been temporarily halted after President Bush finally signed the bill. The house had approved it years earlier but then President Bill Clinton vetoed it. Having the most pro-abortion president in office at present time, (Obama) it may be legal again soon.

Scripture condemns the shedding of innocent blood (Deuteronomy 19:10; Proverbs 6:17; Isaiah 1:15; Jeremiah 22:17). While the killing of all innocent human beings is detestable, the Bible regards the killing of children as particularly heinous (Leviticus 18:21; 20:1-5; Deuteronomy 12:31). The prophets of Israel were outraged at the sacrifice of children by some of the Jews. They warned that it would result in the devastating judgment of God on their society (Jeremiah 7:30-34; Ezekiel 16:20-21, 36-38; 20:31; compare 2 Kings 21:2-6 and Jeremiah 15:3-4.

{quote} I’ll openly admit that I don’t have the answers for every situation.  I’ll also tell you that I don’t think all abortions are murders.  Murder is based on hatred within one’s heart.  Many women have abortions because they have no option to raise a child and putting it into a foster system or condemning it to the suffering of poverty is unacceptable.  These aren’t hateful attitudes.{/quote}

Again, I would have to disagree. Murder is not always based on hatred. In the case of abortion it is almost always rooted in selfishness. In the case of the 'doctor' the main motivation is greed. A well run abortion mill can easily clear over a million dollars a year. 'Killer Tiller' the well known abortionist from Wichita, Kansas, who will perform abortions up to the due date, makes much more than that.

{quote}
If God wants a child to live it will live regardless of what the state wants.  Moses and Jesus both lived through state sponsored child killing.  God is sovereign.  He can do anything he wants. {/quote}

The Biblical evidence I've given shows all children are important to God and He desires them to live. It is evil, sinful man who goes against the will of God and kills the innocent. Of course God is Sovereign and can do whatever He wants. He could keep any from doing evil, but then we would have no free will. Yes, He intervened in the cases you mentioned but miracles are the exception rather than the rule, otherwise they would no longer be miracles, but just unusual chance occurrences.

Some, think it's rational to expect God to intervene in every evil act. How many times have you heard a well-intentioned but naive Christian say something like: 'God is in control, I prayed about it, so it's all up to Him, whatever happens now must be His will, there is nothing else I can do'.
(While letting their daughter's boyfriend sleep over, and being shocked she came up pregnant; and end up paying for an abortion.) (I can hear some of you laughing at such stupidity but I've seen it many times.)

{quote} So, abortions may be sinful.  They may not be sinful.   They may be murder.  They may not be murder.  The bottom line here is that this is primarily a legal matter not a spiritual one.  Yes, yes, murder is a spiritual matter but that’s something that God judges. {/quote}

Jesus repeatedly taught men to judge rightly, insisting they “judge with righteous judgment” (John 7:24) and He praised a man who “rightly judged” (Luke 7:43). Paul shamed the Corinthian Christians because no one among them was willing to “judge the smallest matters” (1 Cor. 6:2). As the Apostle wrote, “He who is spiritual judges all things” for “we have the mind of Christ” (1 Cor. 2:15-16)

I believe I 'Judge Rightly' when I state that abortion is murder. I will not judge the motivation behind the act, I'll leave that to the Lord. But the shedding of innocent blood is always evil. He commands us to judge the act and He has delegated His authority to us, (the governing authoritys) to punish accordingly. There are well over 1 million babies sacrificed on the 'altar of convenience' in America every year.

The biblical view of children is that they are a blessing and a gift from the Lord (Psalm 127:3-5). Society is treating children more and more as liabilities. We must learn to see them as God does - "He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing" (Deuteronomy 10:18). Furthermore, we must act toward them as God commands us to act:


Defend the cause of the weak and the fatherless;
Maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Rescue the weak and needy;
Deliver them from the hand of the wicked (Psalm 82:3-4).

As we intervene on behalf of His littlest children, let's realize it is Christ Himself for whom we intervene:
 
(And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me'). (Mt. 25:40)


Proverbs 29:2 "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice:
but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn."

"Likewise, we cannot survive as a free nation when some men decide that others are not fit to live and should be abandoned to abortion or infanticide ... there is no cause more important for preserving that freedom than affirming the transcendent right to life of all human beings, the right without which no other rights have any meaning." -President Ronald Reagan
 
http://www.whateveristrue.com/holocaust/


Additional information follows:

Partial birth abortion procedure: (Please keep in mind that the word 'fetus' is latin for 'young one', or 'baby', but usually refers to the young of an animal. This way they don't have to call it what it is: an unborn child.)

The doctor uses an ultrasound and forceps to grasp the fetus' leg. The fetus is turned to a breech position, if necessary, and the doctor pulls one or both legs out of the birth canal, causing what is referred to by some people as the 'partial birth' of the fetus. The doctor subsequently extracts the rest of the fetus, usually without the aid of forceps, leaving only the head still inside the birth canal. An incision is made at the base of the skull, scissors are inserted into the incision and opened to widen the opening, and then a suction catheter is inserted into the opening. The brain is suctioned out, which causes the skull to collapse and allows the fetus to pass more easily through the birth canal. The placenta is removed and the uterine wall is vacuum aspirated using a cannula.

The most common form of abortion is suction aspiration or vacuum curettage. This method is used 98% of the time during the first trimester. The procedure begins by dilating the cervix and a powerful vacuum tube with a sharp cutting edge is inserted into the cervix. The suction rips apart the body of the baby, and sucks out blood, amniotic fluid, tissue, and body parts. Post-abortion complications are common when using this method. If any fetal or placental tissue is left behind in the uterus, infection can develop.

The unborn child is often targeted for death if tests show that
it may have a physical or mental handicap.
The American eugenics program has no central sponsor but several

big guns, including Planned Parenthood, NARAL (National Abortion

Rights Action League and the National Abortion Federation.

  Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger was a NAZI sympathiser
and an ardent proponent of Eugenics. She was also known for her strong
anti-black sentiments and geared her eugenicists efforts towards the
annihilation of the black race in America.
The combined forces of these individuals and groups make up the 'Pro-Choice' campaign, a thinly veiled 'Final Solution' for the unwanted unborn child.



The following is a list of useful abortion statistics as well as some facts on abortifacients. All abortion numbers are derived from pro-abortion sources courtesy of The Alan Guttmacher Institute and Planned Parenthood's Family Planning Perspectives:

WORLDWIDE

Number of abortions per year: Approximately 42 Million
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 115,000

Where abortions occur:
83% of all abortions are obtained in developing countries and 17% occur in developed countries.

UNITED STATES

Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700

The following is a list of useful abortion statistics as well as some facts on abortifacients. All abortion numbers are derived from pro-abortion sources courtesy of The Alan Guttmacher Institute and Planned Parenthood's Family Planning Perspectives.

WORLDWIDE

Number of abortions per year: Approximately 42 Million
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 115,000

Where abortions occur:
83% of all abortions are obtained in developing countries and 17% occur in developed countries.

UNITED STATES

Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700

Who's having abortions (age)?
52% of women obtaining abortions in the U.S. are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 32% of all abortions; Teenagers obtain 20% and girls under 15 account for 1.2%.

Who's having abortions (race)?
While white women obtain 60% of all abortions, their abortion rate is well below that of minority women. Black women are more than 3 times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are roughly 2 times as likely.

Who's having abortions (marital status)?
64.4% of all abortions are performed on never-married women; Married women account for 18.4% of all abortions and divorced women obtain 9.4%.

Who's having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".

Who's having abortions (income)?
Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%.

Why women have abortions
1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).