Topic: Tithing

[Tim Russ]

I have split this part of the thread off from the other thread because it's an important discussion that deserves its own thread.  Also because it's off topic to the other thread and you know how the topic police work around here.

One public word about 'contention' and 'debate' and banning.

Warnings will always be issued prior to banning.  To date I've only had to ban one person from this forum and that had nothing to do with their posting. 

I believe in and invite vigorous debate.  I believe in putting our cards on the table so everyone can see all sides.  I believe in people forming personal opinions and strongly supporting them. 

I also believe that anyone can believe anything they want to believe.  Belief alone is irrelevant.  Demons believe in God but it doesn't make them saved.

(James 2:19 NIV)  You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Our beliefs must be based upon God's word if they are to be accurate, true beliefs.  Please try to support your beliefs with scripture as well as reasoning.  It makes things so much easier to accept.  After all, when you passionately present what you believe is God's will for all of us it should be fairly easy to bring his word with you to support his will.

[Jackie]

Well this gentleman backs up everything he says about tithing with scripture.  I have just read this and I agree with every word, and so this is where I stand on the subject:  http://cnview.com/churches_today/chapter_6_truth_about_the_church.htm

I will not fall out with someone who believes in tithing, but I certainly don't want them preaching to me telling me because I don't tithe I'm cursed with poverty.  I was told this by a Pastor, and yes, I have forgiven him

[Linda Woodward]

Tim I just have a question for you --- don't worry, no opinion, just an answer to this ---i'm looking too but I am sure you can find it faster than I can.  I'm sure I know this, but I want it quoted exactly: Where does the Bible say exactly that the 10% tithe should go?

Linda

[Tim Russ]

Depending upon which tithe, or type of tithe, you're referring to it should go to the tribe of Levi.

I've seen studied that tracked all the tithes in their various forms.  Some studies show that as much as 37% of the income can go to God. 

The 10% tithe is traditionally accepted by the church, though.

It appears that I'll end up having to create a detailed study of this subject.   I had no idea everyone was so interested in this subject.

I did write a few articles on this several years ago.  I think I'll post them to this thread to give everyone something to chat about.

DISCLAIMER: These studies were written years ago and haven't been changed in any way.  That means they're not aimed at anyone in this thread.

[Tim Russ]

Article 1 of 5

Tithing

By Tim Russ

(Malachi 3:10 NIV)  Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.

Cash in my hand
Heavy of Heart
I take a step
My journey starts

Take it to church
Give it to God
Buy some new thing
Onward I trod

I must decide
What I must do
But I don’t know
What message is true

This is the response of many Christians when they look at their finances.  Although they have a desire to do what is right they are frequently not sure what is the correct thing to do when it comes to tithing.

Tithing is commonly understood to be the practice of giving ten percent of our income to the church we regularly attend.  There are questions about whether the ten percent should be based on our gross income or net income. 

Some feel that they should tithe on what is actually placed in their hands after taxes.  Others feel that this puts the government and our paycheck deductibles such as health insurance or retirement investment above God.  Yet others wonder if tithing places us into an archaic system that was instituted under the Law of Moses.

Tithing was designated to be the inheritance of the tribe of Levi.  It was to be their portion instead of possessing land.  Of the 12 tribes of Israel only one, Levi, did not receive land.  The tithe was to feed them and provide them an income.  The problem is that Christians don’t have tribes.  Even Jesus’ words in the New Testament were to those who were under the old covenant.  The New Testament simply does not teach tithing for the Christian.

However, the church has always and will always interact with the current culture in which it resides.  The ministers and other spiritual servants who care for the flock of God must be provided an income.  The church cannot function without finances in our modern times.

Tithing was listed in The Law but tithing did not originate with The Law given to Moses.  The first recorded place in the bible was when Abram (who later became Abraham) tithed to Melchizedek.  After Melchizedek had blessed him he gave one tenth of all he had.  You can read more about the blessing that was bestowed upon us through Abraham’s tithing in chapter three of Galatians.  Tithing is actually the response to God’s blessing.

(Genesis 14:18-20 NIV)  Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, {19} and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. {20} And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand." Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

[Tim Russ]

Article 2 of 5

Giving Is Not Tithing

By Tim Russ

(Deuteronomy 12:11 NIV)  Then to the place the LORD your God will choose as a dwelling for his Name--there you are to bring everything I command you: your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, and all the choice possessions you have vowed to the LORD.

We learned last week in the book of Malachi that we are commanded to tithe.  We also learned that the New Testament does not teach tithing as part of the Christian experience.  Yet, we do tithe. 

We tithe to provide an income for those who have been called by God to serve and lead us.  We tithe as the result of the blessings of God.  Malachi doesn’t just talk about tithes.  It also mentions offerings. 

It seems that God expects us to give more than a mere ten percent of our income.  Monetary gifts are generally referred to as sacrifices of praise or as offerings.  The new covenant that defines our lifestyle does have quite a bit to say to us about giving.

Giving is to be done with a cheerful heart.  If you can’t give out of happiness and joy the Lord does not want it.  It would be as if our spouse would give us a wonderful present but they did it grudgingly. 

It would be horrible!  We would have a bittersweet feeling of enjoying the gift but hating it at the same time.  Most of us would just decide we didn’t want it at all.  God reacts to our giving the same way.  He’d rather not have it if it comes with an attached bad attitude.

When we tithe we are acknowledging God’s sovereignty over our finances.  It is a celebration of his Lordship in our lives.  It declares God’s ownership of our life.  Giving, however, is a celebration of his love for us.  It proclaims our commitment to him. 

Marriage is symbolic of our relationship with God.  In marriage there are basic things that are required of us and there are the special things we do for our spouse that go above and beyond.  Tithing is the basic thing that shows respect toward God and is required.  Giving goes beyond and expresses our joy and worship.

Tithing is a foundation upon which we choose to display our relationship with God.  Giving is the home we build upon that foundation to display our love for God.

Sometimes we may want to use our money for other things.  Money does tend to define the quality of life that we can achieve.  A new car, a better outfit.  A nice time out with our spouse.  Yet, by giving we openly display to God that he is more desirable to us than those things or experiences.  We declare before heaven, “You, O Lord, are my inheritance.”


(Philippians 4:18 NIV)  I have received full payment and even more; I am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God.

[Tim Russ]

Article 3 of 5

Stealing From God

By Tim Russ

(Malachi 3:8-10 NIV)  "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings. {9} You are under a curse--the whole nation of you--because you are robbing me. {10} Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.

You may have heard the saying, “The devil gets his due”.  This means that if you sin you will eventually pay the devil.  We don’t hear, “The Lord gets his due”. 

Does God need our money?  Absolutely not.  He owns the universe.  Money means nothing to him.  Then why does God ask us to tithe or to give to him?  He does this to obtain something he cares about deeply.  Us.

God speaks about our heart and our attitudes more than anything else in the bible.  How a person feels about something will be easy to see.  Look at those around you.  Do you know that guy or gal that is a computer buff?  What do they care about?  What about others? 

All of us have pet projects or hobbies that we dearly love.  We display our attitudes by investing our time, finances, or just talking others to death about the subject. 

When we withhold our finances from God it clearly exposes our heart.  God does not always tell people to give to him.  Sometimes he may ask us to pay our bills or to help others. 

Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell everything he had and to give it to the poor and then to come and follow him.  Jesus didn’t tell him to tithe on that money, even though that young man was under The Law.

Elisha, under the anointing of God, instructed the widow to sell all the oil that had been miraculously provided and to pay all her debts.  He further instructed her that whatever was left she and her son were to use as their income.

Those are exceptions that only God can instruct you to follow.  They are also very temporary.  Unless God has specifically directed someone to do something else with the tithe it is theft to avoid giving it to him.  If we all did as we wished with our finances it would hinder the work of God in this world. 

When we know that God wants us to give to his work and we withhold it we are deliberately dishonoring God.  We deny that he is our Creator and our Lord.  Tithing comes before every other expense in our lives, even taxes.  To tithe off the net income is to steal from the Lord.


(Ephesians 4:28 NIV)  He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.

[Tim Russ]

Article 4 of 5


Investment In God’s Kingdom

By Tim Russ

(Matthew 25:14-30 NIV)  "Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. {15} To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey...

Some Christians feel that tithing is a loss of money.  It is payment of a bill, like any other bill.  That just isn’t so.  As we have learned recently if we can’t give without cheerfulness we should not give at all. 

Bills are obligations that we have incurred.  That money is owed and must be paid.  It is a negative cash flow on our income.  Tithes and offerings are investments in the kingdom of God.  They produce cash flow and while it may be a temporary reduction of our income it will result in the ultimate production of income through God’s blessing.

God sees our heart.  He knows our thoughts.  There is nothing under heaven that is hidden from his eyes.  He knows us better than we know ourselves.  When we give to God we are showing our submission to him.  In his due time God will pour out blessings that we simply cannot contain because we honor him in our finances.

Remember, God doesn’t need your money, he needs your obedience.  God doesn’t bless you because you purchased a blessing with your tithe.  He blesses you because you honor him with your submission.  God, himself, will repay your commitment.

If you have read the entire text for today’s Life Note you can clearly see that God expects us to produce a profit from tithing.  We often hear the talents in this section of scripture compared to gifts that God has given us.  That would be taking the scripture out of context.  It clearly is speaking about money.

God expects us to prosper.  While the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, money isn’t evil.  Having money isn’t evil.  In fact, God prospered many of his servants financially in the bible.  Solomon was the richest man in the world.  Not even those who are rich today can compare to him.  He made furniture out of silver and then covered it with gold.

The bible teaches that if we have been stealing the answer is to stop.  Start working to make money so you can give it to the Lord and to help others.  Investing in God’s kingdom is a deposit in our bank account in heaven


...(Matthew 25:28-30 NIV) {28}  "'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. {29} For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. {30} And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

[Tim Russ]

Article 5 of 5


Financial Balance

By Tim Russ

(Romans 13:7 NIV)  Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

As in all things balance is the mature path.  Dealing with our finances as Christians is no different.

The mature Christian seeks balance in their finances because God has called us to exercise sound judgment.  Loving our finances is just as bad as ignoring our finances.  God has instructed us to be certain to pay our bills.

We are to owe nobody anything other than love.  In today's fast moving financial world Christians can easily become overwhelmed.  Bills get paid later and later until they finally don't get paid regularly. 

Credit cards are used to make ends meet.  Debt grows until our credit cards are chains that keep us in bondage.  Finally we start talking about the "year of jubilee" and compare it to the modern day legal proceeding called bankruptcy.

If you are in debt there is a way out.  You didn't get into debt overnight and you can't work your way out overnight.  It may take months or years but here is the simple truth.  Spend less on new things and spend more on your debt.

Sell your possessions if you need to but get your debts paid off.  Is your house payment too high?  Refinance the loan or sell the house and move into a less expensive house.  Examine your expenditures.  Find out which ones are needs and which ones are wants.  Needs are things we cannot do without.  They are not things that we do not WANT to do without. 

We cannot do without food, shelter and clothing.  We can live without all that TV.  Yes, we need to be connected to the world and be aware of our surroundings but do we need 500 channels or just a handful?  Christians are notorious for not paying their bills on time.  God commands us to pay our debts.  Anything less than that is sin. 

There are times when God instructs us to pay our bills and debts before we give our tithes and offerings.  Paying debt from tithes & offerings is not a license to continue being lazy in our finances.  It is a way for God to help us return to financial balance.

Keep track of what you spend on debts and repay God once you're free from the bondage Satan has trapped you in.  By paying our debt we obtain freedom to better serve God. 

When we stop incurring new bills and debts we finally reverse the flow of cash in our financial life.  By paying bills regularly, paying off debt, and eliminate new expenses we will become financially balanced.  We need to take the lead in our fiancés and set the standard for the rest of the world by being debt free. 

(Romans 13:8 NIV)  Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.

[Linda Woodward]

The tribe of Levi?        Well that didn't help my cause -- what I was getting at is that if a tithe is to go to a "church" ---- and I know in the Bible it says that the "church is the body of believers" --- then Jackie and Ann are both correct and it boils down to what I said before -- that God sees all, and He alone is the judge of our "tithing" ........... again just something to think about......

Linda

PS Tim, I still need to read your article posts on here.....

[Jackie]

Now, I know what I believe regarding the teaching on tithing, and I agree with the link I posted earlier, I won't contribute further on this thread.  I know in my heart I'm used by God when it comes to praying for people, and I have been told I am quite good at encouragement.  So, I'm heading off to the Prayer Request part of this forum now...

[Ann Doupont]

Well, Tim, I read part 1 of 5. I started part 2, but it referred back to "last week," so I may wait awhile before reading on....lol

Ann

[Linda Woodward]

well, I tried to diffuse that.............................       

coincidentally, the daily inspiration staring me in the face right at this moment is : "integrity is knowing who you are no matter what life brings your way."

And to that I say Amen.

Linda   

[Ann Doupont]

 

For Linda...lol

Ann

[Jackie]

I know I said I wasn't going to say any more on tithing, but I just read this man's testimony on tithing, and it really touched my heart.  I know not everyone reading will agree, but it is really very thought provoking, and you can really feel where this guy is coming from.  I must admit when I was tithing, I had the same kind of attitude as this man, and I thought I was really pleasing God and I kind of wanted to win favour with the Church leaders.  I don't think I ever did win favour with the Church leaders though   I win favour with my heavenly Father, and that's what counts.

Here's Bill's testimony on tithing:  http://www.tithing.christian-things.com/bill.html