Topic: Prayer: believing that you already have it

[dale001]

One of the most difficult things for me is when praying (or after praying) believing that you have what you prayed for. Am I misinterpreting scripture? Aren't we told to "whatever you ask believing, you will receive"? And then in our daily life, negativity floods back and we worry and stress about what we prayed for. I'm talking about a big problem a person is dealing with, say a relationship. Then we are supposed to act like everything WILL BE as you asked.

How do some of you fair with this "grain of a mustard seed" and "believe that you already have it" scripture?
It's difficult.

Dale

[Linda Woodward]

I know this post is going to lead to a lot of different answers.  I believe in the faith of a mustard seed.  I also believe in the power of prayer.  But there is one more thing that I believe that is tied heavily into those two beliefs and it is this:  God sees the big picture.  We don't.  And He loves us more than we can fathom.   He works from that "place" and we can't always understand the why's we just have to trust those beliefs. Read my column this month Dale -- I had a tough year last year and He was there the whole time.  He is there with you as well. If you don't see Him now, when you look back you will.

Linda

[Tim Russ]

Hi Dale,

I don't think you're misinterpreting scripture.  Negativity is a powerful force in our lives.  It's not an overwhelming force, though.  Positivity is also a powerful force in our lives.  It's not the negativity or the positivity that are the problem or solution.  Rather it’s the choice we make to embrace one or the other that's the power. 

What most people I talk to about this subject don't seem to grasp is that belief isn't a feeling...it's a choice.  Belief is embracing an idea and accepting that it's a fact. 

When I flip a light switch I believe it will come on because I have knowledge that this is the way things work.  I also understand how the light switch, electricity flow, and light bulbs work.  I (hopefully) have also had the wisdom to pay the electric bill.  In other words, it's a combination of factors that brings everything together.

Unbelief ( or disbelief ) usually enters into the picture whenever our feelings interfere.  The evil one will whisper ( or sometimes shout ) into our ear and tell us lies to spread doubt in our hearts and minds.  The way I combat this is the way the Lord did it.  When the devil tempted him in the wilderness all his responses contained, "It is written".

(Matthew 4:1-11 KJV)  Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. {2} And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered. {3} And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. {4} But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. {5} Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, {6} And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. {7} Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. {8} Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; {9} And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. {10} Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. {11} Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Find scriptures that support belief.  Faith scriptures.  Write them down.  Carry them with you.  Memorize them.  EVERY time that you encounter Satan trying to spread doubt in you, pull them out and read them aloud.  With each one of them make a statement out loud that you agree with God's word and that it has effect in your life. 

(Job 22:28 KJV)  Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways.
(Romans 10:17 KJV)  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The grain of mustard seed is a tiny thing.  Jesus tried to redirect the disciples' focus on their lack of faith by pointing out to them that it's not a question of volume.  The amount of our faith is irrelevant.  Our faith (choice to accept as true) is combined with the faith of Jesus, then presented to God the Father.

(Luke 17:5-6 KJV)  And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith. {6} And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

Jesus has enough faith to make the amount of faith needed be enough.  Besides, he pointed out that that grain of mustard seed grows.  This is something else I think the modern church has lost track of over the centuries.  Faith must be nurtured.  It must be catered to.  It must be planted in good soil and then given water and sunshine.

(Mark 4:30-32 KJV)  And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? {31} It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth: {32} But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

Everything has a time.  There's a time to plant and a time to reap.  (Ecclesiastes chapter 3)  When we pray, believing, it moves us into the time to walk in faith.  Doubts will come.  That's how the spiritual world works.  EVERY time they come we must continue to make the same choice we initially made.

The more we make this choice the more our faith 'increases'.  It's a process of forming a faith habit, if you will.  That's why it's important to hang in there and walk in faith as if what you're believing for has already been accomplished.  It may have already been accomplished in the spiritual realm but it may take a while to manifest (be shown) in the natural world.

Anyway, that's how I deal with things.  I hope something in that long post helps a little.

[dale001]

Thanks for the reply. I'm dealing with the heartbreak of a relationship that needs mending, and I find it difficult to wake-up in the morning (after periods of prayer the night before) believing that everything is going to be as I desired (and prayed for). But if I'm to believe the Word (Jesus' words, no less), I must believe in spite of the evidence and in spite of my emotions. I MUST believe that God is in control, even of a relationship and that ought to ease my mind. Does that sound right?

On a side note, what part does persistence play in prayer? I know about the parable of the man who came asking for three loaves. . . But If I am persistent, praying for my desire over and over again, am I displaying a lack of faith that I don't believe I already have what I prayed for?

Dale

[Tim Russ]

Thanks for the reply. I'm dealing with the heartbreak of a relationship that needs mending, and I find it difficult to wake-up in the morning (after periods of prayer the night before) believing that everything is going to be as I desired (and prayed for). But if I'm to believe the Word (Jesus' words, no less), I must believe in spite of the evidence and in spite of my emotions. I MUST believe that God is in control, even of a relationship and that ought to ease my mind. Does that sound right?

Hi Dale,

What you've shared sounds right but it may not be right.

(1 John 5:14-15 KJV)  And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: {15} And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Have you first determined that this relationship is God's will for both your lives?  Unless we know that we're praying within the will of God for our life we're wasting our time.  Even if we're praying within God's will for our life if we don't take action it becomes rather difficult for God to bless us.

For instance, suppose I know it's God's will that I write a book about how to pray.  I pray that God will bless me and guide me in writing the book.  Unless I start writing that prayer is a waste of time because I'm not doing anything for got to bless or guide.

One way to determine whether or not this relationship is right for you both is to ask yourself the following questions:

Is God more important that my desired partner? ( Must be yes )
If God asked me to not pursue this relationship would it be a problem? ( Must be no )
Do I want what's best for my desired partner? ( Must be yes )
Will this relationship flourish and grow if we both put God first in our lives? ( Must be yes )

I don't know your situation so I'll withhold any presupposition in regard to your specific relationship.  All relationships can be represented as a triangle with God at the top and each person on the lower corners.  The closer we get to God, the closer the relationship becomes.

So, here's what I'd recommend...

Ask God to show you what his will is for the relationship. 
Pursue his will in prayer and in life.

To site a personal experience, I was 'in love' with a girl when I was young (18).  My life was filled with her.  She was my morning, noon, and night.  Nothing mattered unless she was the center of attention in my life.  One thing and another lead to us being separated.

I pursued the relationship that we both wanted until it bankrupted me.  I had to move back in with my parents.  I made arrangements to move in with her aunt and uncle to restart my life with everyone's mutual goal being a pursuit of the relationship.  It worked for a while but eventually failed miserably.

I moved back in with my parents.  You need to understand that we were going to be married.  Our families liked each other.  Everyone saw that we were great together.  We both wanted to be together.  It was a wonderful situation all the way around.

She wrote my mother one day and expressed why, in spite of everything being wonderful, the situation just would never become a reality.  She had come to this decision after being discouraged over all the trial and failure to restore things to what we both saw as normal.  I was devastated.

I became completely despondent.  I withdrew inside myself and entered a deep depression.  I went to work and walked through life like a zombie.  Finally, this girl I worked with began to talk with me about my relationship.  She wanted to help me heal.  Everyone around me knew I was in deep pain.

Well, one thing led to another until I started dating this girl just for friendly companionship.  Little did I know that one day soon (within 6 months) of that first date I'd end up marrying her.  My wife, Christine, has been by my side since December 3, 1976.  Over 31 years and four children later I know that we were designed for one another.

We must be certain of God's true will for our life and submit to his superior will.

[Ann Doupont]

Dale,

There are a couple of things that come to mind that I see in play here. Also, more knowledge is needed in order to give correct advice to your situation.

When we're dealing with another person (as in a relationship), it's not the same as using Mark 11:24 (believe that you receive when you pray) or Psalm 37:4 (Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart). The other person also has something to say about what happens in a relationship.

If you're talking about a boyfriend/girlfriend type of relationship, that's one thing. If you're talking about already being married, it's another matter.

We cannot claim another person against their will. Unfortunately, we have to let them go...unless of course, we are married to them. Are you married? Or, is this someone you have wanted to be married to? There is a difference.

God bless you, brother. Relationships are the absolute most difficult thing on the earth to deal with. I know, because I've had to deal with many of them for years...and am single at this time.

With His love,

 

Ann

[Tim Russ]

On a side note, what part does persistence play in prayer? I know about the parable of the man who came asking for three loaves. . . But If I am persistent, praying for my desire over and over again, am I displaying a lack of faith that I don't believe I already have what I prayed for?
 

Hi Dale,

Let's look at 8 verses in Luke before I get started answering this question.

(Luke 18:1-8 KJV)  And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; {2} Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: {3} And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. {4} And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; {5} Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. {6} And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. {7} And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? {8} I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Consistency in prayer is the expectation of God for our lives.  Without consistency in prayer we fail to achieve God's will in our prayer life.  The final question asked in this passage indicates that Jesus felt anyone who didn't follow this model of prayer actually lacked faith.

Keep in mind, though, that we need to be praying within the will of God.  I know this must sound like a cop out or a conundrum.  You must pray consistently but it must be in the will of God.  So how can you know the will of God before you can pray consistently, right?

• You ask.  You wait to hear his voice in your heart.
  
• You listen to Christians and other people around you.  God speaks through them.
  
• You look in God word to find out what it has to say.

You aren't displaying a lack of faith you pray again and again.  You're actually displaying faith if you're praying in faith.

[Linda Woodward]

Dale - my heart is breaking for you because I know what it feels like when your heart hurts--   I have a really strong feeling that if you pray like you are doing but without any request other than to pray for God's will to be shown to you -- you will see clearly what that is. I feel this very strongly -- you are asking for God's help in this -- we are praying intercession for you --- just be open for an answer from Him.   Let your own heart and head rest for right now and just listen.......

Linda

[dale001]

My thinking is (tell me if I'm wrong) God is in control of all aspects of Christians' lives; ALL. We all probably believe that. Yes, only God can change hearts and guide another person; I believe that all things are possible with God--even though, yes, we have free will. I let him worry about that. Leave it at the foot of the cross. He can bring about His Will. He will certainly not turn away from our petitions. Nothing is impossible in prayer. I think we all believe these things, praise God.

Now, more personally to me, there's nothing wrong with asking a relationship to be healed, especially if you know the relationship is right for you both (without being too personal and detailing 11 years worth of things, I know that but if God has another way, I will seek Him to find out). By the way, thanks for your prayers for Carol and myself. God Bless you all. This may not be macho to say this, but I am at the lowest point in my life; even more pain than when my father passed away (although that was terribly rough, I knew dad was with the Lord and no longer suffering).

Tim, I believe I read somewhere (and this sparked my posted thread) that a more accurate translation of Jesus' words in Luke 11:10 can be translated from the Greek as, "Everyone who keeps asking … keeps seeking … keeps knocking." According to Jesus, life with him is about continuing to seek. (Not that we have to question our salvation. He promises He will never leave us or forsake us.)

I believe that the first key to answered prayer is persistence (to hold fast to) Luke 11:5-10, is another example.

I can't find the passage or reference but there was an Old Testament man that prayed 7 times for the same thing before God granted his request (was it Jacob?). Anyway....

Billy Graham has said "you can boil down Jesus' comments about prayer into three things: keep it short (the specific request), keep it honest, and keep it up."  

Thanks again; your prayers mean a lot to me.
Dale

[Linda Woodward]

 "Now, more personally to me, there's nothing wrong with asking a relationship to be healed, especially if you know the relationship is right for you both (without being too personal and detailing 11 years worth of things, I know that but if God has another way, I will seek Him to find out)."

That is the key right there .......seek Him to find out..... like I said He sees the big picture and none of us know what He is doing in your relationship right now...........what I do know is there is a shake up obviously, of some sort, and I believe there is a reason for that.......trust that there is a reason........trust that  whatever it is, is what is best for you, and yes, as hard as it is.................leave it at the cross.  I always know that when my life is in "shake up" mode that God is doing something big.  Trust that.  He's shaking something up and it will fall in perfect order -- His order.   

Linda

[Ro]

Dale,

You have been given a lot of great advice here.  However, I wanted to comment too.  

We often see things through our eyes and not the LORDS eyes.  We, as Christians are striving to be more like God. To think like him and even pray like Jesus did.  

When I read your posts I was thinking of the TRIANGLE that Tim spoke of.  God is at the top of the triangle and we are at one corner and the other person in this relationship is at the opposite corner.  As we BOTH move closer to God we will get closer to each other.  However, if we are the only once getting closer to God, we can see we will be getting farther from the other person if they are not moving forward.  That will give a relationship different dynamics.  

If the other person in a relationship is not growing in their walk with the LORD then we will feel the separation, as we get closer to God.  However, we will have more peace than before because we are getting closer to our LORD.  

As has been mentioned, there is a big difference between a friendship relationship and a marriage relationship.  A marriage is a covenant that we make before God (whether we knew it or not) with the other person.  A covenant is until death.  However, as has been mentioned, we cannot control other people’s decisions.  We are however responsible for how we react to others.  We are responsible to show the love of Jesus Christ to others.  I have been accused of trying to be Holy Ghost Jr (so says my husband) and it does not work.  God is the only one who can change other people.  We are responsible to change ourselves and, yes, pray.

Prayer is important.  I do believe we should continue to pray for our needs.  We can change the tone from concerned request to confident mention of the request that God will answer.  As Tim said, it is not about feelings.  It is about knowing God is faithful and thanking him for the answer.  

I would like to suggest a book that came out quite a few years ago, Prison To Praise. It is about trusting God and praying his will.  It has a lot of examples of what that looks like in real life.  If you cannot find one of those books, let me know.  I have an extra one I can send to you.    

The more time we spend in prayer and study of his word the closer and more real God is to us.  As we all grow closer to Him we begin to see things more like he does.  His voice is also easier to hear.  I know that I often do not hear his voice when I should.  We all work at listening for his voice.  

God is there for us but I truly believe that there are times when he lets us go through things so we can build our character and we will learn to lean on him.  It is when I have gone through the most difficult times that I have seen the hand of God the most in my life.  

Persistent prayer is important because we must pray believing to receive.  And then have faith in God to answer according to His will and His plan.  Then the really difficult part is the waiting on the answer, that is when we get to show that we trust him.

May God Bless you!

Ro

[Jackie]

Dear Dale

I haven't read every single word of this thread but I think I've more or less understood the situation you find yourself in.

Relationships

Dale, I'll share a little about relationships in general.  If I speak from personal experience, it might help.  I had a problem with my son.  He'd dropped out of university and came back home to live.  I didn't like him coming back home in the early hours of the morning under the influence of alcohol and sometimes drugs.  His behaviour seemed abusive when he was under the influence of these substances.

I had been in an abusive marriage from January 1981 - April 1984. 

My son's lifestyle triggered a lot of emotions and pain within me.  I didn't know how to handle the situation.  I asked for help from the local Church I was attending, and in fact one evening I literally cried out to God for help with my son during a prayer time at the Church.

Different people at the Church gave their counsel to me, but none of their counsel seemed right, and I am so glad I did not act on their counsel.  I'll just add - their counsel was to show my son the door and let him live his own life outside our home.  Right, I won't go into a long in depth story about my son, because if I do it might be detracting from you and your situation.

I wanted my son to change, because I believed if my son changed then peace would be restored in our mother son relationship.  One day, after praying, I believe the Lord spoke to me.  This is what I believe our Father said to me that day:

Daughter, you have been praying for your son to change everyday for a long time.  You've prayed prayers like, Lord thank you for my lovely angelic daughter, please make my son angelic like my daughter and you list all the things wrong with your son.  Daughter you have been praying the wrong prayers.

Well, you can imagine my reaction to this.  I was absolutely gob smacked, and I thought what do You mean Lord; I just don't understand what you mean?  Then I felt He said:  Daughter, you are the problem in this relationship.

The Lord then went on to speak in a VERY personal way to me, and by the end of hearing what He said, I was broken hearted and weeping before Him.

The truth will set us free.  We need to hear what God is saying to us personally, and I needed to be confronted by God on issues in my life.  The Lord showed me I had so many inner wounds and no one was attending to these wounds.  I wasn't attending to my own needs; I just wanted to get my son sorted out and then I thought my life would be fine.

Now, here's the big one Dale.  The Lord said this to me:  Daughter, if you will draw near to Me and seek Me with all of your heart everyday; if you will choose to trust Me, lean on Me, read My word, incline your heart to My heart, rest every thought in Me, surrender all fear, all doubt to Me, THEN I will begin to heal your heart and change your attitude.  Your thoughts will be My thoughts, your words My words, and your actions My actions.  My sweet smelling fragrance will exude from you, and your son will be drawn to Me through your love for Me.

Now, this is what I think Dale with your situation.  Carol is someone you care for very much.  I don't know if you two are married.  My suggestion would be to seek God's will regarding this relationship, and then pray Father Your will be done in this relationship.  Sometimes we have to let go of something we hold dear and surrender our desire to Him.  Abraham surrendered his loved one to the Lord, and then the Lord reunited them.

The Lord knows whether this is a God ordained relationship, and He says in scripture, what God puts together let no man put asunder.  He is speaking of marriages made in heaven.  The thing is Dale; you need to know the heart of God on this.  You need to know if Carol is the wife God has chosen for you.

The fact that you and Carol are living independently at the moment might be the ideal opportunity to seek the Lord's perfect plan for your life.  I can tell you from personal experience Dale; whenever I have sought my own will before God's will I have ended up in disaster zone.  I'm hoping to share my testimony on the testimony page soon.

I would never counsel anyone to go ahead and do what they want; not knowing what I know now from tests and trials.  I'd say PLEASE seek God's will for your life.  Let your focus be the Lord, and take your eyes off a human being.  Don't look to a human being for comfort or happiness, but look to the Lord.

Look what happened to David when he looked to Bathsheba.  He should have looked to the Lord and then all those disastrous things would not have happened.

Father, I pray You will lead Dale to green pastures and still waters (Psalm 23) and I pray as a father embraces his son, I pray You will draw Dale so close to You and let him rest Himself on Your breast.  I pray He will hear Your hear beat and You will speak Your words into his ears and his heart.  I pray You will so fill him with Your Holy Spirit and lift him above his present circumstances.  I pray Your peace will flood his being and I ask Father You will be his Physician.  I pray You will lead one or two of those who are anointed of You to bring encouragement to Dale.

Father, I pray Your Holy Angels around Dale, and I pray You will keep Satan at bay.  Please give Dale a special revelation of Your love for him, and may he begin to see himself as You see him.  May Your plan for his life begin to unfold, and may Dale see You have ordained good things for him, not harmful things.  May Dale come to know there is only true solace in One person, and that is You Lord.

Dear Dale, I pray you might be able to view this link on your computer: 

http://www.sunnytees.com/loveletter.html

It's entitled Father's Love Letter.  If for some reason your computer won't let you view this link, then you could always put 'Father's love letter' in google, and try one of the different links. 

I pray the Lord might use the message to minister to you.

Much love

[Ann Doupont]

Dale,

I just now read what you posted here yesterday. You asked whether God is in control of every aspect of every Christian's life. That answer is "no." God is only in control of those things surrendered to Him.

I just glanced at the first sentence that Jackie said here, and I too am like that, in that I have not read everything written here. I did carefully read what you wrote however.

Bless you, brother. As we surrender our hurts to the Lord, He will heal us.

Love,

Ann

[Linda Woodward]

Hi Dale!

I told you your initial post would lead to a lot of answers from us -- so did we totally manage to confuse you or are you doing ok?

Linda

[dale001]

Thanks everyone. I'll ask you all to keep me in your prayers this coming week and lift me up to the Lord.
I believe this is one of those things that God has allowed to happen to draw me closer to Him. As a friend told me at midweek, this is my time in the desert (we all have those times), my time to draw even closer to God.
How long it lasts, only He knows.

---Dale